Marriage Mentoring

The following is an interview with David and Sue Harkins, our "partners in crime" in a marriage mentoring ministry that we recently set up together at our church, Memorial Drive Presbyterian Church in Houston. The Harkins have been married fifteen years and have three elementary school children. They are great friends of ours, a lot of fun, and they share our commitment to helping marriages grow stronger through couple-to-couple connections. Here is our exchange:

What does marriage mentoring mean to you?

To us, marriage mentoring is when we come alongside another married couple and get to know them on a more intimate basis. That process may include walking with that couple through a troubled time, perhaps assisting them through a challenge that we've already experienced before, encouraging them, or even just simply listening to what is going on in their marriage relationship. The hope is to show that other couple that they are not alone in their issues--others have been there and survived! The focus on marriage and making the relationship better benefits both married couples. In fact, just meeting on a regular basis keeps both marriages on the "front burner".

Why were the two of you drawn to marriage mentoring?

We've been married for 15 years, and the early years of our marriage were rocky! We were on separate paths, we did not communicate our concerns to each other, and we certainly had not placed God at the center of our relationship. However, thanks to God, we worked through some major issues during those first few years, and gained a trust and communication level that we had not had in our marriage before. We discussed and reflected on our own challenges and understood them to be gifts that could be shared to help other marriages survive and thrive. Marriage is hard work, and we realize that the more attention we give it, the better it is!

What do you hope to see as a result of couples getting together like this?

Well, certainly stronger marriages and families--and, over time, a lowering of the divorce rate and the consequences that go with that separation. We hope that couples will realize that there is hope in any situation, and with God all things are possible! We hope that couples won't settle for just a "good" marriage, but will strive for a "great" marriage!

What's the difference between this and marriage counseling?

Marriage mentors are not usually licensed counselors; they are, however, listening ears with a love for God and a love for the institution of marriage. Marriage mentors will listen, and give advice and encouragement where appropriate. But for those critical issues, a counselor will be referred.

What do couples need to do if they are interested in being mentored?

It's as easy as 1-2-3! 1. Contact us by either phone or email. 2. Complete the mentee application. 3. Pray for God to match you with the appropriate mentor couple.

How often do couples need to meet?

It is really up to the mentoring and mentee couples. There are no requirements. However, a suggested timetable would be to visit as much as once a month to perhaps once a quarter, depending on the issues, needs and relationships. Our hope is that the couples will meet on a regular basis for at least one year.

What has helped your own marriage stay strong?

Our marriage has stayed strong mainly through commitment. Commitment to each other through good times and bad. Commitment to learn and share on a continual basis on a variety of marriage topics. Commitment to keeping Christ in our marriage and to always seek what God wants for us in this special life partnership He has given us.

For more information on marriage mentoring at MDPC, contact the Harkins at dsharkins@sbcglobal.net or the Hursts at thehursts@homeencouragement.org . You may also contact Brett Hurst at MDPC at 713-490-0930.

Matters of the Heart

Not too long ago, I heard Gary Smalley, author of The DNA of Relationships, speak at a conference on relationships. Since I've been a big fan of Smalley for years (he does make me laugh), I always feel like I've heard all of his stories and insights before. Yet, every time I hear him speak, he always manages to surprise me with something powerful. Most of this below is not rocket science stuff--yet it's still amazingly profound. These are among the takeaways I picked up from him at his recent session:

Why is marriage so hard? Because after we're married we start picking on our spouses to try to change them. Trying to change someone is the exact worst thing we could do. Gary's personal lesson learned: no more finger pointing--you cannot change another person!


Finger pointing causes disconnect and an "unsafe place". If you're with someone safe in a relationship, you'll open up. If you're with someone unsafe, you won't. Take responsibility in your relationship: create a safe place for the one you love.


Definition of insanity: doing the same thing the same way expecting a different result.


Gary's confession to his wife: "I realize that I was never designed to be your Holy Spirit. I've been wrong. Will you forgive me?"


The quality of your life does not depend on the actions of your mate. The quality of life does not depend on your circumstances or your stuff. The quality of your life depends essentially on the beliefs you store in your own heart. Therefore it is important to memorize "heart" and "mind" scriptures such as:

Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. (Proverbs 4:23)

Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--think on these things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me--put into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. (Philippians 4:8-9)

Take note of this: everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. (James 1:19)

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32)


Making scriptures such as these part of your heart makeup will gradually change your life--and help you improve your most important relationships. Of course, there are many, many more good verses that apply to healthy relationships available in scripture. Gary adds that irritating mates help you know what verses to go to!


For more insights and helpful information from Gary Smalley, visit the website of The Smalley Relationship Center.

Let's Get Physical

It's not atypical for one spouse to have a lower drive for physical affection than the other. But that doesn't mean that physical demonstrations of love aren't, nonetheless, very necessary for a life together. Affectionate playfulness, especially non-sexual touch, is a very important component of a healthy marriage. If demonstrating your love in this regard is hard for you, consider some of the following suggestions:


Don't be coy. Move toward your spouse in some demonstrative way.

Initiate the first affectionate advance, particularly if that is something that does NOT come easily for you. Your spouse may have to be picked off of the floor!

Give your spouse a kiss--this may seem obvious, but maybe it's been a while since you have made a conscious effort to do it for no reason. Minimum time length suggestion: 30 seconds.

Surprise your partner with a back rub. This could reap great dividends later!

Get back to basics: try holding hands again. Do you remember what a thrill that was when you were first dating?

Be affectionate in the daytime, even the morning. Go ahead, you can do it.

Make an effort to give a long, firm hug in the kitchen. Research tells us how invaluable hugs are to general well-being and health. If you want a happier marriage AND you want to live longer....

If you are the one in the marriage with the lower sex drive, plan a time and a way where you would feel most comfortable being the one initiating sex. Again, your spouse may need to call 911.


Life is too short to not enjoy a healthy physically intimate relationship with the one you love. Move toward your spouse in the ways that you think he or she will appreciate it most. As the old Alka-Seltzer commercial said, "Try it....you'll like it!"

More on Marriage with Trisha Taylor

This is a continuation of my interview with author/counselor Trisha Taylor (pictured above with her family):

Trisha, why is the institution of marriage so important to a community?

Marriage is the basic molecule of community life. There is something about making a commitment to marriage that makes people more stable, both emotionally and financially, and more committed to community goals. The research is clear on this. Married people tend to share the goals of the community--to protect and support the next generation and to prepare them for productive lives. Although most married people feel as though they are overwhelmed by life's demands, they do actually have more financial and emotional resources than single people do and this is good for children and for the community.

Even though you and your family now live and serve in Austin, you continue to have a lot of interaction with ministry leaders in Houston. What things would you like to see happen in this city in regards to marriage?

I would love to see every congregation in the city involved in marriage mentoring--a process by which experienced couples intentionally support couples who are newer to marriage. I would also love to see every pastor and congregational minister in the city take seriously the call of Jesus to love--beginning with his/her own family. Many clergy marriages are a disaster and siphon important resources of time and energy away from kingdom work, not to mention leaving behind a long trail of hurt, anger, and disillusionment. I would also love to see an even greater commitment to premarital preparation. I think most pastors recognize the importance of helping couples get ready for the marriage, not just the wedding. However, the delivery system--usually a few sessions with the pastor or a Christian counselor--is no longer an effective way of reaching this generation of brides and grooms. I want to see premarital prepartion taken to the next level...and I want to be part of that! I want churches to see that supporting marriages is one of the most strategic things they can do--healthy marriages really do change the future.

We certainly agree with you. Let me ask you a different question. You're a therapist and writer. You're husband is a pastor. What are the particular challenges of a dual ministry marriage?

Many of our challenges are no different from the challenges most people face--finding the time and energy to do all the things we truly value. One important difference, though, might be in other people's expectations of us. Although we have been blessed to be in very supportive ministry settings, it is still true that other people tend to feel that they have a certain ownership over the pastor and his/her family. We've had to learn to be very clear about our boundaries and to create a safe haven at home. Another thing for our family has been separating out what is "his", "mine", and "ours". Even though our ministries overlap in many ways, we both also need to have our own spheres of influence. Dual ministry marriages are very complex but are also full of blessing--in a lot of ways, we share more than most couples do and we speak the same language.

Thanks, Trisha, for your wonderful insights into marriage! We look forward to working with you on joint projects in future months.

Interview with Trisha Taylor

Kellie and I are excited about partnering on some upcoming projects with Trisha Taylor. Trisha is a veteran counselor, speaker, consultant and author. She and her husband Craig recently left a 13-year ministry in Houston to serve at Manchaca Baptist Church, south of Austin. They have been married 22 years and have two teenagers. She enjoys hanging out with Craig, reading and good friendships. Here is part one of a recent exchange:

Trisha, you have worked with marriages for some time. What first attracted you to the area of helping marriages succeed?

I have to say, first of all, that I'm a big fan of marriage. My own marriage has been such a delightful surprise that I really do long for all couples to experience everything marriage can be. I believe that God gave us marriage to heal us--and yet, most of us continue to wound each other in our relationships. I also believe that working with people on their marriages is extremely high-leverage. When a couple changes their marriage, they change the future. The blessings continue in their children's lives and the generations beyond.

That is so true. Because of those future dividends, helping marriages can be very rewarding work. You have a particular heart for couples in the early stages of marriage. What do you think are the common pitfalls in the first two years of marriage?

One of the first things that couples have to learn after marriage is to balance togetherness and autonomy. How much of this relationship is "me" and how much is "we"? And, of course, usually opposites attract here, so we have two people with completely different answers to the question! Another thing that we face in early marriage (usually on the honeymoon!) is our own selfishness. We realize that we're being called to a level of selfless love that we've never before experienced before. It is human nature to resist that call. After all, we married our partners because they were supposed to meet our needs! Are we really ready to follow up on our vow to "love, honor and cherish" no matter what? And then, of course, couples in early marriage have to decide how they're going to handle conflict.

From your experience, what are other transitions of a married life that are particularly stressful?

Research is pretty clear that marital satisfaction plummets after the birth of the first child. That's not a reason not to have a baby since it does eventually return, but it's something that most couples are completely unprepared for. I think we could do a lot to prevent this or at least soften the blow. Another difficult transition is from the early intensity of "first love", which makes both partners talk more and touch more. When it wears off--literally, when the chemicals cause it to go away--it can feel like "falling out of love." Of course, anyone who's been married awhile will say that it gives way to something more precious--but it's still hard.

So marriage, like any worthwhile endeavor, requires hard work. What are things that can help that work go smoother between a married couple?

Two things: humor and respect. Humor means the ability to laugh at myself and at our situation as well as the ability to take things lightly when that's appropriate. Early in our marriage, I learned from my husband that not everything is personal and not everything is life-and-death. (Of course, he learned from me that some things are!) I would hate to be in a marriage where everything is taken so seriously and there is little room to tease and laugh or have fun--even when (and this is important) things are not perfect or easy between us. That would feel like hard work! Respect is the other thing that smoothes things out while we work on our stuff. If I know that my husband respects me, I don't have to be defensive or resistant when we have problems. I can trust that he is looking for a solution that is good for both of us--just like I am. Likewise, when a husband feels respected, he'll do almost anything for his wife.


We'll continue this conversation with Trisha in the next post.

Death-Defying Love

Early last week, I (Brett) lost my oldest sister, Debbie, to brain cancer. Debbie (pictured here as a young adult) was a wonderfully sweet and godly person. She had fought her life battle with cancer for at least three years and finally died peacefully on a Sunday morning. The good news is that she never really suffered at all during those years. In fact, amazingly, she didn't even struggle much in her final hours. To say the least, God gave her a merciful gift of peace and general comfort during her illness. The best news of all is that she couldn't wait to be with Jesus in Heaven. I've never been more confident of where someone is spending eternity. Moreover, I look forward to a glorious reunion with her one day.

Meanwhile, back here on earth, the rest of us were obviously impacted by our loss. Debbie was the oldest of six Hurst kids (three girls and three boys, in that order). We had so many great memories as a relatively large family. Each of us kids had our own unique and tender moments through the years with Debbie.

Although I had experienced God's gentle peace myself the Sunday morning she died, by about Tuesday I could tell that I was indeed being impacted, even physiologically, by just the mere physical loss of a sibling. The stark reality settled in a bit. All of a sudden, we were down to five siblings in my clan. Although I am no stranger to death by cancer (I lost my mom many years ago), it never ceases to amaze me how powerful the impact of internal grieving can be.

As we were preparing all week for a beautiful pair of services that were held last Friday, my wife and I began to notice that we were not hitting on all cylinders in our own marriage relationship. For no apparent reason, we were unusually short with each other. Furthermore, we were not connecting well emotionally in our usual intuitive manner. In fact, we felt really disconnected from each other. Somehow, I quickly got the insight that this phenomenon of relational misfiring was related to Debbie's death and our mutual loss. After all, we had both been close to Debbie. Once Kellie and I discussed this theory, we immediately began giving each other more grace and understanding in our own relationship. Things between us gradually improved through the rest of the week. By Friday, we were emotionally prepared for a lovely homegoing celebration with many loving relatives and supportive friends.

It's strange how losing someone close to you can temporarily affect your ability to function in everyday affairs. As an example, my two surviving sisters both shared with me last Friday that they had been quite fuzzy in their thinking all week as well. A general disorientation was something that seemed to be common between all of the survivors.

I guess my insight here is to just understand that, during these impactful life moments, give your spouse and family members extra grace and patience. Also, realize that when you are one in marriage, losing an "in-law" is just the same as losing your own family member. My wife rediscovered that fact last week. After all, when a person gets married, they marry into another family. Those "additional family members" become part of the fabric of your life. They can easily take position in your personal mosaic as additional parents, siblings, cousins, etc.

Sensitivity is so important. I'm grateful for an understanding wife that can help me honestly process some of the hardest yet most normal experiences of life....even death. Together, we have the capacity to share these kinds of moments in loss. With a whole lot of communication, patience and understanding, doing this together makes the ride a little less painful.

Spicy Incompatibility

When Billy Graham was asked what was the secret of his more than 60-year marriage to the late Ruth Bell Graham his response was often, "Ruth and I are happily incompatible." Ruth, who passed away last June, was a strong, fiery and witty complement to the more diplomatic Billy and they certainly had their disagreements. But they had a satisfying and committed marriage in spite of their different personality styles.

David Neff, editor of Christianity Today, tells of a column titled "Needed: Incompatibility" that Ruth wrote September 18, 1981 for that magazine. In the column, Mrs. Graham made it clear that incompatibility was needed in every marriage and was hardly a reason for divorce. She added that "every man needs to be disagreed with occasionally." Her opinion was without a disagreement here and there a man's personality, ego and even his judgment will suffer.

In that same column, she inserted a funny story. She told about having lunch with several friends while their husbands played golf. One "older companion" shared her secret to a happy marriage: "We never do anything together," the woman said, "except sleep together", she added with an uncontrollable laugh.

When the husbands rejoined the wives after their game, Mrs. Graham couldn't help noticing the obvious affection the other woman's husband displayed publically. "Three cheers for incompatibility!" she trumpeted in conclusion.

Don't be discouraged by differences with your spouse. On the contrary, learn to embrace and celebrate those differences. Some of the most happily married people I know don't agree on a whole host of issues. Incompatibility can actually be the spice of life. Turn toward each other and enjoy the extra kick (no pun intended)!